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greatwhiteshark000

3000GT VR-4 vs Trans Am

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GWS, listen to some1 who has a modded VR4, me

 

I'm about to buy a Stealth twin turbo & take 1000# off it & I want about 700 hp out of it, which is doable though not cheap.

 

check out the site in my Sig for the stuff I have on my 3000GTVR4, Ive spent over $10k in mods but the sucker is almost as fast as my 512TR :D & its a lot more stable than the pontiac will be

 

As I said before I also have an 89 Pontiac firebird GTA & I much prefer the VR4

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good.. so i take it that fba mofo finally took my point.

 

the modpotential of a vr4 is definately up there.. tis not as easy to mod as a f body ( engine mods anyway ), but the parts are there... there are parts readily available that will take the car to above 700hp while being completely street legal.. and they dotn cost as much as you would think. if you want the really good stuff.. like for instance, the JUN stroker kit, which is ultimately badass, and will handle any forced induction mods you will ever give it ( read: the ultimate step to builting the ultimate vr4 ).. that kit is out there, but thats probably the most expensive mod for the vr4.. at about 10k.

 

if you want to see a detailed mod list of whats readily available out there for this car, go here..

 

http://www.dynamicracing.com/3000GT___Stea...___stealth.html

 

http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/full.htm

 

 

this is just mainstream stuff, if you contact places like blitz, and jun, they have all of te best stuff.. but its gotta be special ordered from japan and all kindsa shit like that..

 

oh yeah, just to prove the badassness of a modded vr4/stealth.. heres a video of a modded stealth walking away from a viper on the 1/4 mile like the viper was going backwards.. truly incredible video ( the viper is stock )

 

http://www.dynamicracing1.com/racing_movie...-99viperkill.rm

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Are My Numbers Wrong?

 

No way for only 10,0000$ I can modify a 3000GT Vr-4 up to 600bhp in the altered stages modifications list?

-roughly 280bhp for 10grand or 28$ per horsepower.

Wouldnt that be one of the cheapest mods alive for a car?

(excluding NOS boosts of course)

 

I know the last mod to jump it to 700bhp costs more than the others combined but for only 10grand. That sounds awfully cheap in comparison with other modification staged companies. I may have not taken something into account so correct me if I am incorrect:

 

-Hennessey charges 25,000$ to jump a Jaguar convertible only 100bhp.

-Lingenfelter charges 19,000$ to jump a trans am 150bhp.

Linfenfelter charges 43,000$ to jump a vette 300bhp.

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No way for only 10,0000$ I can modify a 3000GT Vr-4 up to 600bhp in the altered stages modifications list?  

-roughly 280bhp for 10grand or 28$ per horsepower.  

Wouldnt that be one of the cheapest mods alive for a car?

 

Well let me check.... NOPE! Give somebody who knows what there doing a '86 or '87 Grand National/T-Type, and give them $2,000 and you'll have OVER 600 horses, guaranteed.

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Originally posted by greatwhiteshark000

Are My Numbers Wrong?

 

No way for only 10,0000$ I can modify a 3000GT Vr-4 up to 600bhp in the altered stages modifications list?  

-roughly 280bhp for 10grand or 28$ per horsepower.

Wouldnt that be one of the cheapest mods alive for a car?

(excluding NOS boosts of course)

 

I know the last mod to jump it to 700bhp costs more than the others combined but for only 10grand. That sounds awfully cheap in comparison with other modification staged companies. I may have not taken something into account so correct me if I am incorrect:

 

-Hennessey charges 25,000$ to jump a Jaguar convertible only 100bhp.  

-Lingenfelter charges 19,000$ to jump a trans am 150bhp.

Linfenfelter charges 43,000$ to jump a vette 300bhp.

 

 

no, youre not wrong.. well, not far off.. you gotta remember, parts for a jaguar cost significantly more than parts for a mitsubishi.. also, those hennessey prices are inclusive of all labor. you cant get a vr4 to 600-700hp for 10k inclding labor..

 

and c-murder, yes, we all know that you can get a gnx to 600hp for less alright... but we arent talking about a gnx here..not only are those cars easy and cheap to work on, but parts are well.. practically free.. ( im exagerrating of course, but you get the point )

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now come to think about it c murder, you probably cant get that kind of power for that amount of money from a gn either.. i mean, not using brand new parts.. the gn is rated at what? 260 hp or something ( a bit underrated , i know ).. so you think you can just turn up the boost or something? umm, how about no.. you're gonna need exhaust ( 2-300 at least ), new turbo ( id say at least 1000 for a turbo that will support that power level ), bigger intercooler ( you're already over 2000 here, no labor thrown in yet ).. those cars are fuel injected right? then youll need 6 new bigger injectors, boost controllers, wastegate ( a big external one wll be needed ).. etc etc.. you're talking way over 2000 if you're using brand new parts and including labor.. oh yeah, i didnt even mention the engine internals work youd need too..

 

maybe you can get 400 hp out of a gn for 2 grand.. but anything more than that is unlikely..

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now come to think about it c murder, you probably cant get that kind of power for that amount of money from a gn either.. i mean, not using brand new parts.. the gn is rated at what? 260 hp or something ( a bit underrated , i know ).. so you think you can just turn up the boost or something? umm, how about no.. you're gonna need exhaust ( 2-300 at least ), new turbo ( id say at least 1000 for a turbo that will support that power level ), bigger intercooler ( you're already over 2000 here, no labor thrown in yet ).. those cars are fuel injected right? then youll need 6 new bigger injectors, boost controllers, wastegate ( a big external one wll be needed ).. etc etc.. you're talking way over 2000 if you're using brand new parts and including labor.. oh yeah, i didnt even mention the engine internals work youd need too..

 

maybe you can get 400 hp out of a gn for 2 grand.. but anything more than that is unlikely..

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GWS, on the VR4 u have to keep in mind that for my 500hp all the parts I used are bolt on. NO internal components were changed which drastically reduces the price of upgrading the engine as u have no engine removal & teardown expenses.

When I go for 700 hp in the new STealth race car then I'm going all out & using full race components INSIDE the engine block.

So for about $10k u can have close to 500 hp in a VR4

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GNX:

-How are you gonna find a GNX without serious mileage on it?

would you wanna start modifying a car with like 85000 Miles on it?

 

3000GT VR-4:

- I am not so "mechanically gifted" that I can be able to just purchase an exhaust and supercharger and put it on myself. I would rather just do the staged thing because I wouldn't feel safe doing it myself. My car can explode if I tried to put NOS in it without knowing exactly what to do.

The stages don't include labor? oh.

 

Trans-AM:

- why would Lingenfelter charge 20 grand just to get the car to 475 Horsepower? Is labor really that much just for them to do it for you?

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I've been folowing the thread, and everyone seems to be thinking that 'their' package is better than another's because they get more horespower and costs less yadda yadda yadda. If you really want to know what goes into Lingenfelters 20 grand operation go here:

http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages/prici...ng_ls1fbody.htm

I presonally beleive that for what they do for you it is a decent deal. Not tremendous of a deal, but it is emissions legal. Do you realize what it costs to have someone 'break into' the LS1 control module, break all the codes, reconfigure every spark and fuel curve for every situation, on a modified motor? The do that another time since you have two distinct engine packages. All the dyno time needed to tweak the curves to make the car perform at it's best, again for at least two different engine configurations. Then you've got billet steel rods, custom forged crank, titanium valvetrain components, an aluminum driveshaft, and ported&polished heads! That adds up in a hurry.

I'm not trying to defend the high cost of Lingenfelter's conversion(s); merely showing that you get a hell of a lot of equipment for the price, and you can always modify the 'stock' lingenfelter stuff later on. hehe

As for the 3000GT. Just so I understand correctly, you've got 500hp total in that car and you did all the work yourself, correct? If you did, thumbs up! That's great that people still do their own work, congratulations!! 28 bucks/hp is not a bad deal, but you could do it alot cheaper since you've got a turbo. Unless you've got cash to spend I would suggest looking into the mods that turbo Dodge people use the next time you mod a 3000GT or similar car. Sure, most of it is backyard engineering and a few choice junkyard parts, but when they get 300+ hp out of the little SOHC 2.2L 4 banger they're doing alot right. And ALL the tricks they use can be used on the DOHC Talons and Eclipses and every other DSM car that uses a Dodge turbo motor. Hell, they make the stock Talon bov's stay shut past 30 psi by drilling a hole, and it opens before the pressure waves force it open! Why spend 200+ bucks on a BOV that'll the same more pressure? It's one thing to take a sports car and make it run hellishly quick, it's totally another when you make a mini van run 12's w/o NO2. not talking down on ya by any means; just food for thought.

Now for the GNX's since they got into the mix somewhere. There are so many 'recipes' and chips out there it's ridiculous! I also doubt that you can get more than 500 hp for 2k. 4 grand, yeah, I'll bite on that up to about 700 hp. That's plenty of room for a tranny upgrade, new turbo, injectors, intercooler, engine components & ehaust.

I've said my peace, I'll just watch now. :)

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SHelby: I'm not sure, if the DSM turbo motors are controlled the same way as the dodge ones. I do agree that a little enginuity will go a long way in making mor power. Why buy a $300 hks boost controller when you can make your own or buy one that will do the same thing for $35. Some of those 2.2 and 2.5 liter 4 bangers are making well over 300 hp. How else is a FWD 3500 pound minivan going to get in the 12's, and how is a FWD K-car getting in the 10's with out NOS.

 

 

Back to the origional subject. the 3000GT and Stealth were probably the best looking cars to ever come out of japan imo. I would loev to have one. Now That i own a turbo car, I just love them. I love to feel the boost pour on.

The WS6 is also another kick ass car, so I don't know which one I'd want.

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trans am or 3000GT? trans am or 3000GT? I don't know which one is a better buy.

 

Trans Am:

- probably can get one for slightly cheaper price and slightly less mileage.

- much more rarer in the area I live (New York City) than the 3000GT. I am talking rarer than a vette for sure, rarer than a porsche boxster.

- aura of a lean mean ass kicking acceleration machine (different image IMO)

- easy to mod

 

3000GT:

- comes in AWD a huge plus in the snow belt of NYC and whenever it rains.

- gadgets galor and I think more interior room (is that correct anybody?)

- aura of slick stylish exotic. Not I am gonna kick your ass, but I am nicer looking than you and I don't mind if you take a picture in front of me style (IMO)

 

Which One Folks? I give you the keys to one between these two beauties?

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Originally posted by fba mofo

The WS6 is a waste of money...

 

The ram air does hardly anything that you can't do by adding a K&N and a little shifting of the air box.  The suspension can be done, at least locally here in Dallas, by an Italian named Gigliotti, G2 Performance Upgrades.  All he works on are F-Bodies, and has suspension packages for drag, rally, daily driving, whatever; and they are less than you would pay for the WS6, less revealing, and perform better.

 

You'll never see the effects of ram-air on the streets unless you have a deathwish for yourself or others.

 

Ram-air won't effect the engine until around 100mph or so. Adding a K&N and shifting an airbox for effect won't come anywhere near the same potential of a dedicated ram-air system. In our car club, many members use dryer ducts to fabricate a ram-air system, but I had read somewhere (maybe a car mag or bike mag) that it's more than just adding air to your car. The ram-air system is an air pressurizer, it packs air into the car, making the air charge dense....almost the same concept as turbocharging but on a wayyyyy lesser scale. Car manufacturers also research exactly where they need to put their ram-air ducting...you can't just put it anywhere....it has to go in a high pressure area, an area where lots of air will be directed.

 

I've read articles where they dyno'd ram-air equipped bikes and couldn't get accurate readings since the bike has to be moving to get air into the system. Some mags pump air into the system using an airpump, but I see this as not being accurate either since the faster a bike would go, the more air would be crammed into the air system...I'm pretty sure that's very hard to model correctly and naturally.

 

Some mags have quoted up to 10 additional HP 100mph and beyond, so I don't doubt that this same phenomenon happens in ram-air equipped cars.

 

Ron S.

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You may also want to check http://www.dsm.org

 

It's primarily an Eagle Talon/Mitsu Eclipse/Plymouth Laser site. It also covers Galant VR4s and has some 3KGT/Stealth info.

 

Any stock turbo'd car can be modded to Jesus and back pretty easily, but you definitely have to give GM's V8 fbodies their props.

 

One thing you guys may have overlooked: Mitsu does have some reliability problems, mainly trannies and cranks. Mitsu has been in the paper a LOT, lately. I would take my business elsewhere.

 

3KGTs aren't being made anymore and will likely not come here again. Contrary to popular belief, I seriously doubt they are still being sold here in Japan (yeah, I live here). I've yet to see one on a Mitsu dealership lot.

 

Fbodys will be here for awhile yet, so if you want one with a warranty, that'd be the best way to go.

 

Ron S.

 

Originally posted by kepone

good.. so i take it that fba mofo finally took my point.  

 

the modpotential of a vr4 is definately up there.. tis not as easy to mod as a f body ( engine mods anyway ), but the parts are there... there are parts readily available that will take the car to above 700hp while being completely street legal.. and they dotn cost as much as you would think. if you want the really good stuff.. like for instance, the JUN stroker kit, which is ultimately badass, and will handle any forced induction mods you will ever give it ( read: the ultimate step to builting the ultimate vr4 ).. that kit is out there, but thats probably the most expensive mod for the vr4..  at about 10k.

 

if you want to see a detailed mod list of whats readily available out there for this car, go here..

 

http://www.dynamicracing.com/3000GT___Stea...___stealth.html

 

http://www.extrememotorsports.com/gscat/full.htm

 

 

this is just mainstream stuff, if you contact places like blitz, and jun, they have all of te best stuff.. but its gotta be special ordered from japan and all kindsa shit like that..

 

oh yeah, just to prove the badassness of a modded vr4/stealth.. heres a video of a modded stealth walking away from a viper on the 1/4 mile like the viper was going backwards.. truly incredible video ( the viper is stock )

 

http://www.dynamicracing1.com/racing_movie...-99viperkill.rm

 

 

 

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