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greatwhiteshark000

3000GT VR-4 vs Trans Am

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GWS, I have a place in CT so I know about NE winters. I think you'll be happier with the VR4, it has more class then the pontiac & its a safer car, also u can easily drive it all year long, unlike th pontiac which will b a real handful in snow, even in rain. The VR4 is an all weather sports car u can use all year long with no worries. Only deep snow or mud will stop the VR4.

If u havent already, check out 3si.org a bunch of cool guys who love VR4s & Stealths

The guy i use for my VR4 mods is Brian at GTProm.com in CA. my car has near 500 hp, & I have 100k miles with no transmission problems although i had to rebuild the transfer case at 60k, which cost $1200

other than that the biggest weakness of the VR4 is the lousy brake rotors but those are very easy & cheap to fix.

Let me know if I can help

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You have helped immensly already. Anyways, I am definitely considering purchasing either a 3000GT VR-4, Trans Am, Camaro SS and if i dont have enough money maybe a Stang GT (I like the way it looks), within the next year and a half so most of my interest goes into researching those 4 cars.

 

I decided I will have enough money to get the Vr-4 or a trans am so I crossed off the SS, but I still like how the GT looks. albeit its way to common.

 

I live in NYC so Conn is very close to here. I am concerned that when it snows, which is around 4mnths a year I will have problems with the car if its a RWD and it is my daily car to drive, not some weekend ride. The Vr-4, how is it for repairs? I know you can;t judge individually about your car since you take good care of it, but I dont know as much about its mechanics etc...

 

I really wanted to get a Vr-4 Spyder, but thats a 96' model and maybe its better to spend the same money on a 99' model with less mileage?

 

Brakes can always be upgraded for $$ so I am not worried about that, and probably judging "poor" brakes against your other nice cars is different from me saying a car has poor brakes compared to a Saturn, Sable, or any car I have ever driven besides my Eclipse GT 2000.

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First of all, your prices are all wrong...

 

My friend owns a '97 VR-4, he bought it for $28k with 48k miles on it. So, if you honestly think you are going to find a '99 VR-4 for under $35k that has less than 60k miles on it, you should probably start seriously shopping.

 

Second, the All-Wheel-Steering (AWS) ended in '94 along with the active aerospoiler and airdam.

 

Third, 0-60 times are off, the VR-4 comes in at 5.5s and the T/A (w/o WS6) clocks in at 5.3s (w/ WS6 it's at 5.29s).

 

When comparing style, you have to make that decision. I have always been in favor of American style and muscle, but I do like the look of my friends ride (pearl white with tan leather interior). As for the WS6, a waste of money, the ram air looks nice but doesn't do much, suspension upgrades can be done for less than $3k (price of WS6 package). The 6-speed in the VR-4 has caused my friend a few problems, but the T/A is not exactly free from mishaps either. If you are going to buy a sports car and drive it like one, be prepared to pay to maintain it.

 

If you're looking for modding capapbility, and money is an option, go T/A. The VR-4 is very hard to mod, the engine is already close to it's peak capapbility without getting into redoing heads, cam, spark plugs, intercoolers (front-mount!!!), turbos (2x), intercooler piping, etc... The price quickly goes up.

 

Anyway, you obviously need to look at both cars carefully and do your research, because you most likely have not...

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Originally posted by fba mofo

First of all, your prices are all wrong...

 

My friend owns a '97 VR-4, he bought it for $28k with 48k miles on it.  So, if you honestly think you are going to find a '99 VR-4 for under $35k that has less than 60k miles on it, you should probably start seriously shopping.

 

Second, the All-Wheel-Steering (AWS) ended in '94 along with the active aerospoiler and airdam.

 

Third, 0-60 times are off, the VR-4 comes in at 5.5s and the T/A (w/o WS6) clocks in at 5.3s (w/ WS6 it's at 5.29s).

 

 

when you're trying to say someone's wrong, you should at least try and be right yourself.. know what i mean? you couldnt be more wrong if you tried...

 

first off, the 4ws has been in the vr4 from the beginning to the end of its production run. as a matter of fact, its still being produced in japan with 4 wheel steering. the active spoilers did get dropped though, but it was after 94, not sure what year, but im pretty sure it was 95 or 96.

 

second, the vr4 will do 0-60 in 4.8 sec.. not the 1st gen car, the second gen ( 96-99 ). it does that speed, and thats a fact. deal with it. if you want numbers, ill get you numbers.. thats no problem at all..

 

anyway.. moral of the story.. dont go talkign about shit that you dont know about.. it makes you look bad.

 

[Edited by kepone on 10-31-2000 at 10:29 PM]

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Originally posted by fba mofo

 

 As for the WS6, a waste of money, the ram air looks nice but doesn't do much, suspension upgrades can be done for less than $3k (price of WS6 package).  The 6-speed in the VR-4 has caused my friend a few problems, but the T/A is not exactly free from mishaps either.  If you are going to buy a sports car and drive it like one, be prepared to pay to maintain it.

 

If you're looking for modding capapbility, and money is an option, go T/A.  The VR-4 is very hard to mod, the engine is already close to it's peak capapbility without getting into redoing heads, cam, spark plugs, intercoolers (front-mount!!!), turbos (2x), intercooler piping, etc...  The price quickly goes up.

 

Anyway, you obviously need to look at both cars carefully and do your research, because you most likely have not...

 

ok.. umm.. yeah, you really have no idea what you're talking about ( im not just saying this to be a dick, its really true )

 

first off.. umm.. the ws6 is a waste of money? its only the best performing f body currently available, or that has been avilable in the past 8 years ( i mean factory stock ).. i wouldnt call it a waste of money by any means. as for problems.. yeah, im sure that all cars have problems. but in a ws6, you wont find those problems coming from the powertrain.. its pretty much bulletproof.

 

and just so you know, the vr4's motor isnt anywhere close to its full potential stock.. will less than a grand in mods you can get that car reliably into the low 12's-high 11's ( intake y pipe, cat back , boost controller ). the mod potential of that engine is damn incredible.. but noone's really done much with it yet ( i have seen a street legal one that ran 10's without nos before.. but you can also easily do that with the ws6 )

 

 

if you want more info on vr4 mods, go to

 

http://www.dynamicracing.com

http://www.alteredatmosphere.com

http://www.extrememotorsports.com

 

the potential is there, and it doesnt cost as much as you would think.

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Thank you for your wonderful oratory, but just out of curiosity, what part of your ass did you pull those numbers from? And if you say supercars.net, I'll consider you more of a dumb ass than I do at this present moment in time.

 

AWS stopped after the final production in the year of 1994, no it did not continue into 1995 or any year since then, hince the fact that my friends 1997 VR-4 does NOT have AWS. Now let's see if we understand the numbers here before we go further. AWS stopped in 1994; 1997 does not have AWS; therfore you are wrong, and I am right.

 

Another question for you, have you ever seen a VR-4 in person, outside of pictures and the occasional one on the highway/street?

 

Anyway, my friend just brought up a good point concerning your numbers on the 0-60. You are right, I was wrong, it doesn't run 5.5, it runs 5.3. I am very sorry for the mistake. However, I was much closer to the correct et than you were. Where they hell do you get that number? Just as some kind of proof. My friend has installed various mods to crank up his boost (with water-injection and a boost controller, I hope you know what that is) to 18-20 psi (it's stock 11 psi) and has the standard K&N. With these simple mods he has barely achieved your acclaimed 4.8s 0-60. He ran a 8.31 s at 82.5 mph in the 1/8 mile track in Kennendale, TX 2 weeks ago. His fastest trap speed was 83 mph. As I type, he is installing a NOS kit (50-75 shot) that'll hopefully put him around 4.5 s. Without NOS he's pushing close to 410 bhp @ 5500 rpm (peak boost). Now of course this is an estimate simply because there are no AWD dyno's to speak of anywhere close to TX.

 

Now the only way that I can see you having any chance of overdoing anything that I have to offer is if you are talking about an infamous Toyota GTO, which in all practical purposes does not exist legally within the United States of America. Oh yeah, even the GTO doesn't come with AWS...

 

My personal suggestion is to make sure YOU, my comrade, is that you have your facts straight before you think of challenging me again.

 

And for further enjoyment, try visiting http://www.3si.org, it's the international club for the 3000GT and Stealth, 3000GT/Stealth International (3SI).

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To Great...

 

I do not disagree with that price, it's on E-Bay...

 

But looking at the Kelley Blue Book value, he got a fair deal, the car was in immaculate condition, and it only had 48k on the odometer. And it was $28k after TT&L.

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My VR-4 is my all time favorite car. That is a tough decision though, but I'd take the 3000GT all the way. Along with a 6 speed, the whine of 2 turbos as you drive down the street is music.

 

Get the VR4 man.. you won't regret it.

 

Oh, Countach.. you must be one rich bastard. :D

But whats with the rice wing on the 3000GT?

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The WS6 is a waste of money...

 

The ram air does hardly anything that you can't do by adding a K&N and a little shifting of the air box. The suspension can be done, at least locally here in Dallas, by an Italian named Gigliotti, G2 Performance Upgrades. All he works on are F-Bodies, and has suspension packages for drag, rally, daily driving, whatever; and they are less than you would pay for the WS6, less revealing, and perform better.

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Originally posted by fba mofo

Thank you for your wonderful oratory, but just out of curiosity, what part of your ass did you pull those numbers from?  And if you say supercars.net, I'll consider you more of a dumb ass than I do at this present moment in time.

 

AWS stopped after the final production in the year of 1994, no it did not continue into 1995 or any year since then, hince the fact that my friends 1997 VR-4 does NOT have AWS.  Now let's see if we understand the numbers here before we go further.  AWS stopped in 1994; 1997 does not have AWS; therfore you are wrong, and I am right.

 

Another question for you, have you ever seen a VR-4 in person, outside of pictures and the occasional one on the highway/street?

 

Anyway, my friend just brought up a good point concerning your numbers on the 0-60.  You are right, I was wrong, it doesn't run 5.5, it runs 5.3.  I am very sorry for the mistake.  However, I was much closer to the correct et than you were.  Where they hell do you get that number?  Just as some kind of proof.  My friend has installed various mods to crank up his boost (with water-injection and a boost controller, I hope you know what that is) to 18-20 psi (it's stock 11 psi) and has the standard K&N.  With these simple mods he has barely achieved your acclaimed 4.8s 0-60.  He ran a 8.31 s at 82.5 mph in the 1/8 mile track in Kennendale, TX 2 weeks ago.  His fastest trap speed was 83 mph.  As I type, he is installing a NOS kit (50-75 shot) that'll hopefully put him around 4.5 s.  Without NOS he's pushing close to 410 bhp @ 5500 rpm (peak boost).  Now of course this is an estimate simply because there are no AWD dyno's to speak of anywhere close to TX.

 

Now the only way that I can see you having any chance of overdoing anything that I have to offer is if you are talking about an infamous Toyota GTO, which in all practical purposes does not exist legally within the United States of America.  Oh yeah, even the GTO doesn't come with AWS...

 

My personal suggestion is to make sure YOU, my comrade, is that you have your facts straight before you think of challenging me again.

 

And for further enjoyment, try visiting http://www.3si.org, it's the international club for the 3000GT and Stealth, 3000GT/Stealth International (3SI).

 

 

ok, so not only are you wrong, but you're an asshole too? right.

 

umm, i used to be a mitsubishi salesman .. and it said distinctly in the brochures that the car had 4ws up till 99. i dare you to prove me wrong asswipe. why dont you just get your ass under the car and look... youll see all of the 4ws components. theyre pretty hard to miss. and they werent an option. the vr4 only came one way. manual tranny, awd, 4ws. also, if thats not enough credibility for you, i used to work for extreme motorsports.. a noted dsm tuner.. so i know quite a bit about these cars, and apparently, you dont.

 

ok, now to truly make you look like an ass... your friend cranked up his boost to 18-20 psi huh? right.. ok, the stock y pipe blows off at 15 psi, not to mention that the stock 9b turbos wont hold more than 15 lbs of boost to redline.. you can crank it as high as yo want, but you arent gonna consistently get more than 15 psi.. its a physical impossibility of those turbos. you wanna know more? fine...

 

 

anyway.. there also is no such thing as an awd dyno, viscous coupling of thecar has to be modified to allow the car to only spin the main drive wheels ( fronts in a vr4 ). this modification must be done every time you want to run on a dyno. if you dont believe me on that then 1. you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and 2. you can go ask extreme motorsports yourself. that should shut you up.

 

another thing.. where did i get those numbers? well, not only have i run the 1/4 mile and tested the cars acceleration with a gtech, but it also says it in various issues of motor trend, car and driver, and road and track.. whatcha gotta say now dickhead? get a clue

 

oh yeah, and not all vr4's are stock 11 psi just so you know ( and you should, because you claim to know so much )only the 2nd gen was 11 psi, the 1st gen was set at a lowly 9 psi.. but you should know that right?

 

oh and which boost controller did your friend use? i would hope that he used the apex avc-r, but the hks ebc and blitz sbc are pretty nice too.. i hope he didnt use a controller with fuzzy locig mechanisms, as they tend to confuse most twin turbo systems...( especially sequential systems, but the vr4 is parallel, so it doesnt have quite as much to worrt about )

 

another thing yet.. how do you know that your friends car makes 410 hp @5500? i mean, you would think that being a turbo car it would make peak hp close to redline like the stock car does.. you know, 320 hp@ 6500 rpm.. but how would you know anyway? did you just imagine that number? after all, you said that you didnt run the car on a dyno.. so where do your numbers come from? i mean, if your friend was effectively increasing the boost by 9 lbs, his car would be making quite a bit more than 410 hp anyway.. what does his car run on the 1/4 mile? i know a guy nearby that did the basic mods.. (manual boost controller , cat back borla exhaust, intake y pipe, k=n filter ) and he runs a 12 flat now.. you may have remembered his car from sport compact car last year.. it was on the cover.. anyway, he lives just downt he street from me..

 

oh yeah, and you dont need to tell me about 3si, ive been a member over there for quite some time..

 

you have no idea what you're talking about man.. ive been workign with these cars for years now.. you simply havent.

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Arguements Unsettled:

 

1.Is the 3000GT Vr-4 Post 1994 AWS or not?

2.The Trans Am WS6 is a waste of money for 3000$ other mods are better for the price (suspension, air box)?

3.The quarter mile and 0-60 numbers for the vr-4?

4.Mod potential of the 3000GT Vr-4 (fuzzy numbers)?

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1.Is the 3000GT Vr-4 Post 1994 AWS or not?  

2.The Trans Am WS6 is a waste of money for 3000$ other mods are better for the price (suspension, air box)?  

3.The quarter mile and 0-60 numbers for the vr-4?  

4.Mod potential of the 3000GT Vr-4 (fuzzy numbers)?

 

1. To answer question one:

1997 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4

Drivetrain Full-time All-Wheel Drive (AWD) with viscous coupling, center differential and limited-slip rear differential.

Steering Power-assist rack-and-pinion with same-phase 4-wheel steering.

 

2. Fuck no,

Exclusive items only found in the WS6 package of the Trans-Am

Ram Air hood and air intake (like that of the Firehawk)

The 1998s and up WS6s have a completely new hood with 2 functional intakes right above the standard non functional nostrils

Freer flowing exhaust system

Higher rate front springs (360 lbs/in)

Variable rate rear springs (130-180 lbs/in)

Stiffer front and rear shocks

Harder bushings

Larger diameter front anti-sway bar (32mm)

Increased cooling

17 inch wheels with 275/40ZR/17 tires

 

 

3. "The VR-4 features a 3.0 liter DOHC 24-valve twin turbo charged V6 engine which produces and incredible 320 horsepower and does 0-60 mph in a very impressive 5.3 seconds."

I'm sure some Magazines got better numbers, I beleive Motor Trend got a 4.8, wich seems ridiculously fast compared to other tests.

 

4. I don't know for sure, although i'm sure it's a good car in terms of aftermarket performance parts. But I would have to say that the mod-potential of a 4th gen F-Body would have to be marginally better(if your American).

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