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http://www.holmanmoody.com/images/drag_rac...g/AFXstang2.jpg

 

That's similar to what the factory teams did in the '60s, Johnny. The Thunderbolt had dryer-hose type tubes running up from teh high beam headlight areas to the intake on the 427. The AFX drag car pictured actually used a bit larger corrugated piping, but the concept was the same.

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If you know about Viper intake pipes, you'd know that the stock pipes are accordion like, and therefore do not produce as clean of air flow as would be liked by many Viper owners, thats why smooth pipes or hoses are almost always the first modification done to Vipers.

 

I was not faulty in the F50, you agreed with me.

 

The Audi shows its intakes as well.

 

The RX-7 shows a heat resistant intake hose going from a cone filter. Maybe you missed that, and I know enough to know that intakes aren't pressurized.

EDIT: I reread your post and realized that you said that the RX-7 would need heat resistant intake piping because turbo's get rather hot. So again, you agreed that my pic proves a point.

 

The WRX was not commented on by you, why?

 

Look at my first post Chris, I don't think its worth it to buy an aftermarket intake necessarily, but it does help. Who cares if race teams did it with dryer hose back in the day, F1 cars had 170 horsepower or something like that, doesn't mean that we should always do it the way it was once done. Methods improve. Intakes improve. Dryer hose or PVC is not the best way to go in terms of power, although they are much more cost-effective. Me, Ill take a sawzall to my airbox and call it good.

 

[Edited by TurboREX on 10-27-2000 at 04:30 PM]

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I explained to you why the turbo cars shown were not what we were talking about, and that INCLUDES the WRX. The intakes come from the center of the turbos on those, too, so need to be more direct heat resistant. Not because it will make the intake charge cooler (as going through the turbo it's heated more then any outside air temp will matter. That's why it then goes through intercoolers in the turbo cars. Since intake temparature is not a concern with intercooled turbo cars, they have very short intake pipes off the turbo, with the air filter just far enough away to not melt from the turbo's considerable heat. Which means that, in the discussion of cold air intakes, intercooled turbo cars are a NON ISSUE. That's why I said your reasoning is faulty. And they don't need to worry about how smooth the airflow is, either, because they are pressurized after the fact. Which means that, in this discussion of NA cold air induction systems, most of the cars you pictured are not valid arguing points.

 

The F50 is the only one, but it's mitigated by the fact that cost is no issue, so the very lightest and most high tech material is used for everything. It may not flow better, but it doesn't weigh as much. And in a car like the F50 or Viper, you're not trying to create the same function for the least money. And that's the difference. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that on a car like the F50, that if there was a cheaper way of doing something that they would do it. Do you really think that someone who can afford a Viper or F-40 will try to do something as cheap as possible, or as trick as possible? We already know the answer to that. Hell, we've all seen guys spend thousands on parts that don't make any improvement at all. We KNOW that a PVC pipe and corrugated hose doesn't look as good as carbon fiber or polished stainless. But, on a street driven N/A Civic, 510, SE-R, etc, it will work equally as well (I'd go so far as to guarantee you that back to back dyno tests would show it), and allow you a few hundred extra dollars to spend on the things where cost WILL make a difference.

 

There are thousands of examples of homemade parts functioning as well as factory built or high dollar aftermarket parts. Drag racers do it all the time. Magazines show how to build up race cars on a budget that function using homebrew "technology." It's already proven time and again that it works.

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So you agree with me then that it can be done better than PVC pipe but its not cost effective? Thanks, thats what Ive been saying all along. Why do you think I chose to cut the bottom off my airbox instead of purchasing a $175 intake with "HiPER" coating? If cost is no issue, then carbon fiber intakes such as are on the Ferrari are better. But if you want your engine to look good while it goes fast, then there are alot of intakes which are dyno proven to give your car 7 hp (I think the 7hp was an HKS intake on an RX-7 turbo). Lets face it, most people don't know how to design an intake to give the best airflow and to draw air from the coolest location.

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Originally posted by TurboREX

So you agree with me then that it can be done better than PVC pipe but its not cost effective?  Thanks, thats what Ive been saying all along.  Why do you think I chose to cut the bottom off my airbox instead of purchasing a $175 intake with "HiPER" coating?  If cost is no issue, then carbon fiber intakes such as are on the Ferrari are better.  But if you want your engine to look good while it goes fast, then there are alot of intakes which are dyno proven to give your car 7 hp (I think the 7hp was an HKS intake on an RX-7 turbo).  Lets face it, most people don't know how to design an intake to give the best airflow and to draw air from the coolest location.

 

No, I said it (an aftermarket, high dollar induction) will look better, not necessarily work better than a homebuilt. You haven't yet shown that it won't. And personally, I don't care about dropping another pound or so of total weight, which is what the carbon fiber ones are all about. For that, you can simply eat one less pizza before raceday.

 

Now, you're right that most people couldn't design a maximum efficiency cold air induction system. The problem comes in thinking that you have to design it yourself, or that home built means home designed. You could simply copy the specs and location of the costlier aftermarket version in cheaper materials. Then you get the benefit of the engineered design (shape, diameter, air cleaner location, etc), along with the benefit of lower cost. A lot of homebrew solutions are like that. The engineering going into them is actually the exact same high dollar engineering done on the bought brands, simply because the bought version is being copied for function, and function only. You don't have to have an engineering degree to copy the specs.

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engineering is not copying another intakes specs and trying to recreate their design. Engineering involves tight tolerances, which will not be met by the individual home built pvc intake. Engineering involves solving problems, not copying. Please dont' use the word engineering when describing such methods. And, home built intakes are rarely if ever clones of another manufacturers intake. Maybe you have stumbled upon a good idea, but I find it difficult to believe that such jiffy-rigged peices can adhere to quality control specs like the aftermarket ones. Take for instance Subarus. On the newer RSs, there is a MAS (mass air sensor) that its quite the problem for intake manufacturers. If the stock airbox and snorkel are replaced, the MAS gets fried. At least, they did in the beginning. Now there are 1 or 2 aftermarket intakes that actually don't damage the MAS, and guess what, they aren't home made.

 

And for you weight loss idea, how about you don't have the pizza, and you put a carbon fiber intake on your car, now you're a pound ahead of the guy with the PVC. And your airflow is better. And you know that you didn't manufacture it using faulty techniques, since you didn't manufacture it at all.

 

I don't really care though, you have no facts, I have no facts, there's no facts in this whole discussion. Just 2 slightly different opinions. We're going nowhere with this, lets quit it. My last statement:

 

Home-made intakes are not rice and are much more cost-effective than an HKS intake or any other aftermarket intake. But you can't produce the same power and your engine won't look quite as good. Its your choice, $200 bucks for 2 more hp and a cleaner lookin engine, or, $50 for 2 less hp and the knowledge that you just bought a strut bar and an intercooler with the money you saved.

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