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Bliggida

Super Sport - King of the road

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well blig to be honest with u, ive been sittin here looking up 1/4 mile tmies for camaros since i got home from the bronco game. the fastest time ive found for a z28 is a 13.8 and for the ss is a 13.5. and a new cobra is a 13.5 wouldnt that mean the cobra would be a top competitor/victor of the SS? i think so. do u honestly think they would sell a sub 13 sec vehicle for under 30K? if that was the case everybody and their mom would have one. if u find somewhere or video or anything of a SS pullin anything lower than a 13.5 show me. because i honestly cant find anything of the sort. remember the SS only has a whopping 15 more hp at the FLYWHEEL than the z28.

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Both the Z28 and SS run 13 flat as the slowest time with a good driver. Look it up in Fast Fords article! They didn't believe it either until they went out, bought one and tested it. They stole theirs for $28,000!

 

People don't realize the full potential of the Camaro, that's why they aren't selling like Hotcakes, I am trying to round up a used one and I alreay have a Camaro. What can I say, one is not enough.

 

The new LS1 F-bodies pull 13 seconds on a bad day at the track! Only the 2002 Cobra comes close to them, and even then it only ties! It doesn't beat the Camaro SS.

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im still not believing that they run a 13 flat. thats a really fast time to be running blig. think of the kind of cars that run a 13 flat and what kind of power they have and transmissions. your looking at times like a lambo diablo VT or a Cobra R mustang, and a ferrari 360 spider f1. i emailed chevrolet to see what kind of times they got for their camaros. im not saying its not easy to make a camaro break 13s but they dont do it stock.

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Originally posted by Big Baby Jesus

 

Actually…

 

I always hear about people talking about beating a mustang.  Just because the Mustang is slower than the SS doesn’t mean that it can’t be a means for comparison.  Perhaps your were driving a new Altima, or maybe you drive a RSX or WRX.  People like that take pride in taking a Mustang.  Which also adds to the flame of already modified mustangs out there.  Some of the “baddest” cars I’ve ever seen were mustangs.

 

BTW, the Z06 is more expensive that you think…  Still its all under 100k though right…  I’m just being picky.

 

I can see your point about different cars aiming for whatever floats their boat. But the Z06 is listed as under 50K- Just thought you'd like to know. (Yahoo Autos has it as $49,705, so just barely under 50K)

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Well Turbo, believe it or not they will break into 12's stock. Now granted I will admit this is rare and the absolute exteme of performance. I'm not sure I could do so without hours of practice on the car. But it has been done. In the latest issue of Hot-Rod, there was a stock Fuel Induction finals (I forget where) some 17 year old kid layed down consistant 12.90's with an SS that still had the paper tags on the back!!!

 

GM is not going to ever, nor will any car manufacture tell you the absolute best - they conserve it so that Joe Public can go out an replicate it. Otherwise they'd be facing a lawsuit.

 

It's the same with the Z06 - they are high 12 cars. No, they've been into the 11.9's stock, and I have seen videos of that somewhere.

 

This is why I absolutely do not understand why people don't buy LS1 cars??? Specifically the F-body. $29,000 and it goes 12.90 off the showroom floor - how can you not like that? Even if the car is the most unsacred ugly thing you've ever seen in your life!

If you want to be even more realistic, throw on a set of super sticky street tires, Like Hoosier D.O.T. Quicktimes - and anyone can pull a 12 second run on an F-body, anyone. These cars are leaving the line - stock - raising the front end almost completely off the suspension! 60 foot times of nearly 2 seconds flat!

 

They truly are incredible (if you rag them out) but just quickly lolly-gagging through the gears will net your a 14 flat in the quartermile. Not to mention they are turning up .89/.90 G's on the skidpad as well, so going fast straight-line isn't all it does well. Although I will admit a good bump is harsh on your guts.

 

I would even submit to Mustang Cobra's being able to be run faster that what I think they can, because all cars are inherently like that. It's not so out-of-the-question. Any given car with a good launch, and perfect track conditions, will easily run .5 seconds or more quicker with the right driver.

If all the Camaro was capable of in the hands of an average driver was a 13.5...12.9 in the right conditions. I've even heard of 12.8's!

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That might be a little stretch. I agree some cars are faster than probably reported, but not by that much. The numbers car magazines pull are about consistent with manufacturer's numbers. One thing that gripes me though is that C&D tested a Mustang GT and got 0-60 in 6.0s and 1/4 mi in the mid 14s. Motor Trend tested a Mustang GT as well and got 0-60 in 5.4s and 1.4 mi in 14.00.

 

Anyways, have any of you guys heard of the Terminator Mustang? An incredible 400hp. It won't have as big body modifications as the Cobra R did. This thing will haul ***! It will rock a lot of higher end cars too! I suspect a price of mid $40k. With the Mustang's already fairly good handling, this car will surely change the way how people see Mustangs.

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three words: Berger SS Camaro.

 

Sure it comes with a $45,000 price tag, but it comes with 415 horspower among other goodies, makes 380 ft/lbs to the rear wheels - and hence goes a lot faster, around 12.40 in the quartermile on BFG G-Force radials.

 

Once again though, you could build the same for about $2,000 over the cost of an SS.

Same applies with the Mustang, of course.

 

Magazine's as I've said in other threads, they don't always rag a car out for what it's worth - they drive a car with the average person in mind, and how competant the regular public is at reproducing the same results. Obviously, a normal driver will never attain the numbers a professional can lay down. Remember the car test magazines' evaluations are always 'just a reference, a quick-look, and overall view' of a certain car. If you go to say Hot-Rod magazine you'd be more apt to see what the limits of a car really are.

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Originally posted by Bliggida

three words: Berger SS Camaro.

 

Sure it comes with a $45,000 price tag, but it comes with 415 horspower among other goodies, makes 380 ft/lbs to the rear wheels - and hence goes a lot faster, around 12.40 in the quartermile on BFG G-Force radials.

 

hmmm, scratches his head. with your claims of the SS pulling 12.8 this is kinda fishy. this "berger" camaro having over a 100 hp more than an ss and only pulling .4 seconds faster on the E.T.??? not right. also, that was an independent website and has nothing to do with the manufacturers. those are the times PROFESSIONAL drivers send in to them. i still cant see any camaro with the best conditions and the best driver pulling a 12.8. and even if so, that same driver should be able to hop into the Cobra mustang whos "conservative" E.T. matches the SS, correct?

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Guest Big Baby Jesus
Originally posted by Bliggida

Well Turbo, believe it or not they will break into 12's stock.  Now granted I will admit this is rare and the absolute exteme of performance.  I'm not sure I could do so without hours of practice on the car.  But it has been done.  In the latest issue of Hot-Rod, there was a stock Fuel Induction finals (I forget where) some 17 year old kid layed down consistant 12.90's with an SS that still had the paper tags on the back!!!

 

GM is not going to ever, nor will any car manufacture tell you the absolute best - they conserve it so that Joe Public can go out an replicate it.  Otherwise they'd be facing a lawsuit.  

 

It's the same with the Z06 - they are high 12 cars.  No, they've been into the 11.9's stock, and I have seen videos of that somewhere.  

 

This is why I absolutely do not understand why people don't buy LS1 cars??? Specifically the F-body.  $29,000 and it goes 12.90 off the showroom floor - how can you not like that?  Even if the car is the most unsacred ugly thing you've ever seen in your life!  

If you want to be even more realistic, throw on a set of super sticky street tires, Like Hoosier D.O.T. Quicktimes - and anyone can pull a 12 second run on an F-body, anyone.  These cars are leaving the line - stock - raising the front end almost completely off the suspension!  60 foot times of nearly 2 seconds flat!  

 

They truly are incredible (if you rag them out) but just quickly lolly-gagging through the gears will net your a 14 flat in the quartermile.  Not to mention they are turning up .89/.90 G's on the skidpad as well, so going fast straight-line isn't all it does well.  Although I will admit a good bump is harsh on your guts.  

 

I would even submit to Mustang Cobra's being able to be run faster that what I think they can, because all cars are inherently like that.  It's not so out-of-the-question.  Any given car with a good launch, and perfect track conditions, will easily run .5 seconds or more quicker with the right driver.  

If all the Camaro was capable of in the hands of an average driver was a 13.5...12.9 in the right conditions.  I've even heard of 12.8's!

 

Bliggida you exaggerate far too much… So much so, you could be caled a liar..

 

I’ve seen countless stock F-body runs… You name the F-body model, I’ve seen it run…

 

I see SSs and Z/28s run mid to high 13s… Once and in a little while they will run low 13s… I’ve never seen a F-body run 12s… So there is no way it is as common as you make it seem. Hell it is a rare site to see a C5 break into the 12s… I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, because I believe full and well that it does… however they don’t do it often.

 

You say GM will never give you the absolute best or any auto maker? How about the how GM advertised the ’01 Z06 to run 0-60 in 4 flat? Or how about the new Q45 not even living up to its manufacturers claim.

 

Not everyone gets a F-body for a few reasons I don’t understand that you don’t understand.. follow? First the F-body is expensive per mile and insurance… Not everyone and their grandmother can afford the cost of running the car. Secondly, not everyone and there mother can handle the power that the high end F-body is working with. That’s a lot of torque and already there are several F-body drivers out there who can’t handle what the push. Secondly, people want a more refined car… A car more dependable than the F-body. They may also desire nimble handling and twisty excitement that the F-body just can’t offer… Did I even mention the F-body’s looks… The judgement of a car does not revolve around the ¼ mile. If it did then the F-body would fair much better, I’m sure.

 

Just because a car pulls a high skid pad numbers, does not mean it handles well. I don’t know where this misconception began but it really should be shot down by someone who can explain it better than I can. Skid pad is nothing more than grips, which shouldn’t be a big problem with large 275s in the rear of the F-body. With a simple swap of tires the F-body could pull a healthy amount less or more on the skid pad… I think the FACT that the ES300/Camry beats the F-body throughout the slalom ( A better test of handling than skidpad) shows that the F-body isn’t a strong handler. I’m not saying it handles for ****, but it surely isn’t anything to brag about or bring up as a strong suit.

 

Also I don’t know why you are bragging about 12.8, I thought you told me you had heard of 12.6 (which Shaman claimed and you backed him up, I remember).

 

BTW a 45k Camaro is funny at best… Especially for a few grand more you can be working with a Z06.

 

BTW #2, can you please find that Video of a Z06 running 11s stock…

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That video was posted in CF, I don't remember which section but it was posted here...somewhere.

 

Anyway, I never ever said a Camaro went 12.6. That was someone else's claim. And it's not stock, least to say not the tires. 12.6 will be quite easy with a set of drag slicks as your only modification. And I think I made that clear.

 

I have said it before, and will say it again for those that chose not to listen the first time. 12.9 is very hard, but it's attainable. I would put money of the fact that I, myself can take an SS Camaro and within 5 runs, post a sub 13.3 quatermile.

Someone running 14 flat, is just conserving tires. 13.5 is a bad 'all out' run for an LS1 car.

 

I do not exaggerate, I post unlikely, extreme, professional numbers but I do not exaggerate. And, I make it quite clear that the average person who knows how to shift will assertain a low 13 second quartermile with a Z28. I do cover all my bases.

 

GM's official specifications on performance for the 2001 ZO6 Corvette is "0-60 in 4 seconds flat"? Or, is that just what a representative said at a SEMA show??? Big difference!

 

The Slalom has to do with instant weight transfer. I agree it plays a part in the handling report card. However skidpad ratings are in fact accurate. A corner is a constant direction, not one where you are darting from one side to the other. Those "grips" measurements you mentioned are indeed a good indication. That is because a car will corner until it begins to lose grip. Therefore, the more a car can grip - the more it will hold the same corner at a greater speed.

 

as a side note they have 275's at all corners, not just on the rear.

 

The Berger Camaro's numbers were either given by Berger, or from Hot-Rod Magazine's tests. I'm sure it could go a lot faster. I imagine on the stock suspension with that much horsepower, grip becomes the contributing factor for the F-body, so as to limit it's performace. I would have to see 60 foot times to verify this.

 

I only threw the Berger Camaro SS out there, as a counterpoint to a $40,000 Terminator Mustang. Which to me, honestly nets an even bigger laugh!

 

Looks are opinion, and irrelavent to performance. You may hate it, I love it. Whose wrong? No one. What difference does it make through the quartermile - none. At high speed, which car will be more stable - the Camaro, because it's drag coefficient is lower, being the Camaro is more streamlined.

 

There is really no need to pick apart my statements and start a jihad here, take them for what they are worth, as I do yours.

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Guest Big Baby Jesus

Well…

 

I’m just going to say, as I had before… GM “advertised” 4.0 flat 0-60… It was not a representative or anything, it was a advertisement.

 

Also about the 12.6, Shaman said it and you backed him up. Shaman said STOCK run, which means factory tires. I was also talking about stock, so somewhere along the line things are not working, I don’t care though..

 

I don’t mean to pick your parts off in a offensive way. I just have a pretty good knowledge in what I was talking about and I posted my experiences which were not in agreement with yours, and still are not.

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Originally posted by Bliggida

Well Turbo, believe it or not they will break into 12's stock.  

 

Originally posted by Bliggida

Anyway, I never ever said a Camaro went 12.6. That was someone else's claim. And it's not stock, least to say not the tires. 12.6 will be quite easy with a set of drag slicks as youro nly modification. And I think I made that clear.

 

im done with this one anyway, we all made our points.

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