33 replies to this topic

[jmmotive]

So I was doing some research on the new Tesla Model S (which I used to think was really stupid) and I found some really cool information about it. It can apparently do a quick charge in 45 minutes for 150 miles and can charge overnight for a maximum of 300 miles. That's awesome but what's even cooler is that is that a full charge will cost, on average, about $4! The performance numbers are pretty impressive too. 0-60 in 5.6 seconds with a top speed of about 120 mph. The Model S will seat 5 adults and 2 kids comfortably and have all wheel drive. Now this would sound like a really expensive car but the Model S is only $49,000! Now that's still a lot but think of the money you save on fuel.

What are your thoughts?

[Isaac]

I wouldn't call it the best car ever. I do think electric cars are the future. Good looking car and fairly practical. Still, it is way out of reach of the average car buyer. And if you had 50k to spend, would you really spend it on this car?

[2007DBR9]

Where does the electricity come from?

If everyone had an electric car as their daily driver, then the demand for electricity would be through the roof. We would not be able to produce it fast enough to satisfy demand.

Its a nice idea, but not a realistic one.

Anyway, there is still not a single good reason why I would buy that over a petrol / diesel sedan. You have to pay for electricity remember, it's not free.

[jmmotive]

2007DBR9, on May 29 2009, 05:22 PM, said:

Anyway, there is still not a single good reason why I would buy that over a petrol / diesel sedan. You have to pay for electricity remember, it's not free.

I know that, I said that they claim that a full charge for 300 miles will cost an average of $4... though I see your point.

[Elite_Deforce]

jmmotive, on May 29 2009, 03:48 PM, said:

Now this would sound like a really expensive car but the Model S is only $49,000!

Only

I still have major reservations about electric cars, primarily because of the battery. First of all, quick charges will kill your battery life in the long run, and then when it comes to be replaced, what happens? Plus, imagine if you crashed and acid started spilling out by the litre?

Edited by Elite_Deforce, 29 May 2009 - 08:58 PM.

[Isaac]

Elite_Deforce, on May 29 2009, 06:55 PM, said:

Only

I still have major reservations about electric cars, primarily because of the battery. First of all, quick charges will kill your battery life in the long run, and then when it comes to be replaced, what happens? Plus, imagine if you crashed and acid started spilling out by the litre?

Imagine you crashed your car and gasoline started spilling out?

[Isaac]

2007DBR9, on May 29 2009, 03:22 PM, said:

Where does the electricity come from?

If everyone had an electric car as their daily driver, then the demand for electricity would be through the roof. We would not be able to produce it fast enough to satisfy demand.

Its a nice idea, but not a realistic one.

Anyway, there is still not a single good reason why I would buy that over a petrol / diesel sedan. You have to pay for electricity remember, it's not free.

If we have to rely on coal plants for electricity, then you are right. However, advancements in solar, nuclear, hydro, thermo and wind could make it a possibility.

Electric cars have the big advantage of being able to transfer the forward momentum back into energy which the internal combustion engine never will.

[Elite_Deforce]

Isaac, on May 29 2009, 10:29 PM, said:

Imagine you crashed your car and gasoline started spilling out?

Not nearly as hazardous as battery acid.

Isaac, on May 29 2009, 10:31 PM, said:

If we have to rely on coal plants for electricity, then you are right. However, advancements in solar, nuclear, hydro, thermo and wind could make it a possibility.

Electric cars have the big advantage of being able to transfer the forward momentum back into energy which the internal combustion engine never will.

-Im talking about the batteries themselves. Also, anyone remember that Top Gear when the prius came out? Jezza was bashing it because it polluted the world more just to build the damn thing? The disposal of those batteries must be bad for the enviro.

-True, but not the point im trying to make.

[2007DBR9]

I think electric cars are still a long way off. There are 2 reasons to buy one - you want to save money, or you want to save the environment.

If you want to save money that will be difficult, as the actual car is expensive and you have to pay to chage it. Electricity is not cheap

If you are an eco mentalist you are not only an idiot, but not looking at the bigger picture. The production process is horrific, I bet running a V12 S class Mercedes for a year is more eco friendly. And like ED said, if you crash it you not only spill acid everywere, but you burn a hole in the road. Not only do you kill animals, plants, children etc but the road has to be resurfaced. And we all know what roads are made from! Plus the batteries have to be replaced every few years anyway which costs a bomb too.

Its a very nice idea, but not going to be happening any time soon. If they can fix the production process, and use less damaging materials then I am all for it.

[jmmotive]

2007DBR9, on May 30 2009, 05:21 PM, said:

I think electric cars are still a long way off. There are 2 reasons to buy one - you want to save money, or you want to save the environment.

If you want to save money that will be difficult, as the actual car is expensive and you have to pay to chage it. Electricity is not cheap

If you are an eco mentalist you are not only an idiot, but not looking at the bigger picture. The production process is horrific, I bet running a V12 S class Mercedes for a year is more eco friendly. And like ED said, if you crash it you not only spill acid everywere, but you burn a hole in the road. Not only do you kill animals, plants, children etc but the road has to be resurfaced. And we all know what roads are made from! Plus the batteries have to be replaced every few years anyway which costs a bomb too.

Its a very nice idea, but not going to be happening any time soon. If they can fix the production process, and use less damaging materials then I am all for it.

lol. no i'm definitely not an eco freak. That's an interesting point. I guess I didn't think of that. Good thing they're still developing it.

[2007DBR9]

jmmotive, on May 31 2009, 01:45 PM, said:

lol. no i'm definitely not an eco freak. That's an interesting point. I guess I didn't think of that. Good thing they're still developing it.

Don't worry, I didn't think you were.

No eco mentalists like Jeremy Clarkson

[Isaac]

2007DBR9, on May 30 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

I think electric cars are still a long way off. There are 2 reasons to buy one - you want to save money, or you want to save the environment.

If you want to save money that will be difficult, as the actual car is expensive and you have to pay to chage it. Electricity is not cheap

If you are an eco mentalist you are not only an idiot, but not looking at the bigger picture. The production process is horrific, I bet running a V12 S class Mercedes for a year is more eco friendly. And like ED said, if you crash it you not only spill acid everywere, but you burn a hole in the road. Not only do you kill animals, plants, children etc but the road has to be resurfaced. And we all know what roads are made from! Plus the batteries have to be replaced every few years anyway which costs a bomb too.

Its a very nice idea, but not going to be happening any time soon. If they can fix the production process, and use less damaging materials then I am all for it.

LOL. You are not going to burn a hole in the road!!! LOL.

[Isaac]

While doing a wiki search, I came across this entry.

Quote

Individual batteries are usually arranged into large battery packs of various voltage and ampere-hour capacity products to give the required energy capacity. Battery service life should be considered when calculating the extended cost of ownership, as all batteries eventually wear out and must be replaced. The rate at which they expire depends on a number of factors.

The depth of discharge (DOD) is the recommended proportion of the total available energy storage for which that battery will achieve its rated cycles. Deep cycle lead-acid batteries generally should not be discharged to below 20% of total capacity. More modern formulations can survive deeper cycles.

In real world use, some fleet Toyota RAV4 EVs, using NiMH batteries, have exceeded 100,000 miles (160,000 km) with little degradation in their daily range.[20] Quoting that report's concluding assessment:

"The five-vehicle test is demonstrating the long-term durability of Nickel Metal Hydride batteries and electric drive trains. Only slight performance degradation has been observed to-date on four out of five vehicles.... EVTC test data provide strong evidence that all five vehicles will exceed the 100,000-mile (160,000 km) mark. SCE’s positive experience points to the very strong likelihood of a 130,000 to 150,000-mile (240,000 km) Nickel Metal Hydride battery and drive-train operational life. EVs can therefore match or exceed the lifecycle miles of comparable internal combustion engine vehicles.

"In June 2003 the 320 RAV4 EVs of the SCE fleet were used primarily by meter readers, service managers, field representatives, service planners and mail handlers, and for security patrols and carpools. In five years of operation, the RAV4 EV fleet had logged more than 6.9 million miles, eliminating about 830 tons of air pollutants, and preventing more than 3,700 tons of tailpipe carbon dioxide emissions. Given the successful operation of its EVs to-date, SCE plans to continue using them well after they all log 100,000-miles."

Jay Leno's 1909 Baker Electric (see Baker Motor Vehicle) still operates on its original Edison cells. Battery replacement costs of BEVs may be partially or fully offset by the lack of regular maintenance such as oil and filter changes required for ICEVs, and by the greater reliability of BEVs due to their fewer moving parts. They also do away with many other parts that normally require servicing and maintenance in a regular car, such as on the gearbox, cooling system, and engine tuning. And by the time batteries do finally need definitive replacement, they can be replaced with later generation ones which may offer better performance characteristics, in the same way as you might replace old batteries from a digital camera with improved ones.

[Isaac]

Also, if you are worried your Prius will need its battery replaced...

Quote

Electric cars using lead-acid batteries require their regular replacement, while with routine maintenance internal combustion engines can last the lifetime of the vehicle. NiMH batteries typically last the life of the vehicle. Toyota Prius vehicles have been known to go over 300,000 kilometres (190,000 mi) without needing a battery replacement, though the Toyota warranty is for 10 years/150,000 miles (240,000 km) or 8 years/100,000 miles (160,000 km), and new batteries cost around £2,300 to $2,600 in 2008 and are expected to fall in price over time.

[2007DBR9]

Isaac, on May 31 2009, 09:44 PM, said:

LOL. You are not going to burn a hole in the road!!! LOL.

Trust me, some of the roads in the UK would be torn apart by a crash involving a battery powered car. Have seen it happen with a Prius... Thankfully the damn thing was written off